Friday, November 12, 2010


I posted something on the discussion board on today that I still feel like ranting about. 

This was my post:

It's NOT as though there are only two or three things... or even three or four... there is a mountain of evidence against TSCC being "the one and only true church."  If there was just a couple areas of concern, perhaps it could be accepted as "true," but when there so many fraudulent areas, it stands to reason that it's actually false.  It is simply not possible to put aside the fact that there are differing versions of the First Vision; that polygamy was obviously put into play by Joseph Smith to cover-up his philandering; that the Prophet of the Restoration committed adultery with teenager girls and married women; that he was actually a criminal and not a religious martyr; that he created and/or plagiarized the BoM and the BoA; that he paved the way for 150 years of blatant racism to exist in the Mormon Church; that he bent everything to his goal of being "all-powerful" in everyone's eyes so they would do whatever he said they should; and so much more.
I was thinking about this earlier, and I couldn't help but ask myself how anyone who knows the truth behind so many of the doctrines and so much of the history of TSCC can remain associated with it.  It just doesn't make sense.  Accepting everything blindly and by faith is somewhat possible when you don't actually think about things, but it requires so much rationalization, so much overlooking evidence, so much burying your head in the sand that it boggles my mind how anyone can not think that it is simply a fraud and a scam.
It reminds me of being married to my second husband.  If I could have overlooked the fact that he was abusive to me, I still had to deal with the fact that he was mean and abusive to my daughter, and saw how that was affecting her.  For a while, I overlooked both of those facts and tried to focus on the positive aspects.  But as time went on, I realized that whatever "positive" aspects there were, the negative ones were so overwhelming that they over-shadowed whatever benefits I may have derived from being married to that man.  Once I realized that, remaining in a situation that was clearly destroying both of us was a no-brainer for me.  In the same respect, it became a no-brainer for me to finally realize that TSCC is not what it professes to be, and to see what being a member of that church was doing to me as an individual and as a woman. 
In essence, every member of TSCC is in an abusive relationship with their church.  They take what TSCC dishes out, and they bury their heads in the sand, in essence pretending that TSCC truly is "the one and only true church on the face of the earth," and that they are deriving good benefits from their membership.  But in reality, TSCC is killing each and every one of them... it is killing their spirits, their individuality, and their zest for life.

Ok, rant over for now...

I got a few really interesting responses:

OldSoul posted this response:

The deconversion process for any religion follows a similar pattern.  Belief isn't rooted in a single doctrine or idea.  It's more of host of ideas connected by a supportive web.  Counter any one idea or belief and the entire belief structure still survives.  Most people encounter one or two things that will challenge their beliefs. It takes a person willing to examine many points of belief to have a chance of deconverting.  One by one you must put these ideas to the test.  Are they real?  logical?  is there evidence?  Not many people are able to do this.   
I'd think most people having gone through a full deconversion would feel like there were 100s of problems with their previous belief system.  You feel this way because you've put your belief structure to the test and point by point it failed.  I can't think of many religions that would really stand up to this kind of analysis.  It's pretty much all a bunch of hooey.

And LDS Truthseeker posted this response:

Yeah, if it was just a matter of having no evidence to support the Church's claims, then that would be one thing.  We would just need a certain amount of faith to accept the Church's claims.  However it is not the lack of evidence but rather the contradictory evidence that makes the claims of the Church so hard to believe.
If it was just a couple irreconcilable items that needed an extra measure of faith, then that would be a hurdle most of us would be willing to shelve until the next life.  But the sheer accumulation of significant issues that contradict what we've been taught makes it seem inconceivable that all of these things somehow have some sort of extraordinary explanation.
Maybe none of the individual items is in itself an absolute deal-breaker.  But the sheer volume of significant issues makes it inconceivable that the Church is really what it claims to be.
Maybe there really are fantastic explanations to explain all these things like God changed the American Indian's DNA from Jewish to Asian, Egyptologists don't really understand Egyptian, archaeologists just haven't found the steel swords, horses, and elephants mentioned in the BOM, Joseph didn't really know where the Hill Cumorah from the BOM was, the scribes were responsible for all the errors and misquotings of the prophets, blacks really are cursed from God through Cain, Joseph's brothers sleeping in Joseph's own bed with him just slept while Moroni visited him all night, evil men really did steal the lost 116 pages but just decided to destroy this valuable document, the Masons really did have the original temple ceremony from Solomon's time, God brought all the dinosaur bones from other planets to the Earth, etc.
If these and many, many more fantastic explanations for all the numerous problems were really true, then that would be even more amazing and unbelievable than the story of the restoration itself as taught by the Church!  What are the chances that ALL of the damning evidence against the Church will suddenly reverse itself?
I think that anyone that knows the complete, true, historic details of all of these events, and many others not listed here, and is then asked to still believe in them as taught by the Church, is asking for more sheer faith than anyone should be asked to have.

And then howdidimissthat posted this response:

I could have excused a handful of historic omissions but when EVERY "fact" I thought I knew ended up being a lie everything changed, I had no more respect for their dishonest system.  Some "facts" were omitted from history, others were distorted and rewritten.  The intent was dishonest when it happened and it is dishonest to continue lying.  The leaders will never step up and do the right thing.  They will never tell the truth as the truth not as an excuse or an apologetic explanation.  The big 15 have too much to lose if they present the true facts and apologize for years of lying, they don't give a rat's ass about the members.  They are cowards. 

Very interesting discussion.  My rant for the day culminated in me writing a poem... which I posted in the Poetry section of this blog...

Friday, November 5, 2010


Last month, I went to an Ex-Mormon Foundation Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah for the very first time.  Since then, I've been reflecting on what I gained from that experience.  Part of my reason for wanting to attend the conference was to meet many of the people with whom I have been sharing exchanges on the PostMormon discussion board (  People who have shared similar experiences with me in disassociating themselves from the Mormon Church.  People who can relate to my struggles.  People with whom I have common ground.  And meeting these people was definitely worth the trip.  Going on the discussion board on has been very enlightening and reassuring since so many of these people, like me, have discovered the falsities and contradictions in Mormonism -- and doing so, they have struggled to free themselves from the Mormon mindset, which is no easy task.  So meeting these people in person completed the circle to form actual friendships.

The conference began with an "open mic" session (ala Fast and Testimony meetings) where people got up to introduce themselves and say whatever they wanted to share.  This was the first time I began to put "aliases" with actual names and faces, and I had several "aha" moments during that two-hour session.  I have always found it very interesting to place faces with voices of people to whom I have talked on the phone over the years, especially at work -- and they rarely turn out to look the way I have envisioned them.  And of course, this was a similar type of experience in that regard.  There were many people who got up and gave very touching "testimonies."  One woman in partricular almost had me in tears because I could relate so much with what she said about feeling trapped in the Mormon Church for so long and finally being able to break free.  And the ones that were fairly young and had managed to break free made me feel very envious since I remained "trapped" until I was 52 years old.

Another very touching part of the conference was seeing a documentary entitled, "In the Shadow of the Temple."  This film is about people who, although they have discovered many unsolvable problems with the Mormon Church and thus have become non-believers, have remained active in it because of family pressures.  As stated in a review on
"Those who consider leaving Mormonism face the consequences of isolation from their communities, shattered marriages and devastated family relationships. In the Shadow of the Temple is a 55 minute documentary that weaves together the stories of still-practicing non-believers and ex-Mormons as they reject the culture and teachings of the Church. Their strategies of coping can be as varied as hiding their disbelief and continuing to practice, to defiant refutation of the Church and its teachings." 
I was very touched by this film, and was in tears by the end.  I was very gratified to be told at the end of the film by one of the producers who was there, though, that all of those who appeared in "shadow" in the film had all "come out" by the end of the filming.

Another wonderful part of the conference was the dinner on Saturday night at which Tal Bachman spoke.  He is a musician and former Mormon who left the Mormon Church several years ago after discovering many things about the doctrine that he could not reconcile.  His story was very compelling, and I was very interested in how it began.  He talked about how he had been called to be the Gospel Doctrine teacher in Sunday School, and the research that he began to do about Genesis and the Book of Abraham.  When he began to see many conflicting ideas in the two, he began to do more research and discovered many things that he did not previously know.  This led him to do more research, and of course, this led him to discover more and more inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions in the Standard Works of the LDS Church.  Ultimately, he came to the conclusion that Joseph Smith had made up the whole thing, and that Mormon doctrine is filled with lies and deception.

Continuing with his story, Tal said that after coming to this conclusion, he could not rationalize out teaching the Gospel Doctrine class anymore, so he went to his Bishop to ask to be released.  After discussing what he had discovered with the Bishop, and the Bishop providing no good answers, the Bishop suggested that he speak with the Stake President about his concerns.  So Tal made an appointment to meet with his Stake President, and was dumbfounded by the Stake President's reaction.  According to Tal, the Stake President told him that he knew that Joseph Smith had lied about many things, but that he (the Stake President) chose to stay in the church anyway because it made him a better husband and father.  When Tal said that, I was stunned.  Of course, Tal wasn't able to see the rationale behind the Stake President's thinking and was very confused by what he had encountered with both his Bishop and the Stake President.  Apparently after that, Tal talked to his wife (and mother of his 8 children) about what he had discovered, what he had been told by both the Bishop and the Stake President, and she was as puzzled by the whole thing as Tal was.  He described how sick they both felt at that point, not knowing what to do next.

Tal concluded his remarks by saying that the icing on the cake was a couple of weeks later when the Primary children were giving the Sacrament Meeting program, saying that they knew the church was true, that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, and all the things that Mormon children are taught to believe -- and there was the Stake President sitting there in Sacrament Meeting, smiling broadly as he listened to all of that.  Tal said that he and his wife sat there, looking at each other in puzzlement, and that they didn't go to church after that.  Unfortunately, though, the process of extricating themselves from the Mormon Church also eventually tore Tal and his wife apart, and they are now divorced.

All in all, my experience at the Ex-Mormon Foundation conference in SLC was a very good one, and I am very glad that I went.  I hope to be able to go next year as well -- and would like to make it an annual event.  After describing my experiences to my daughter, she told me that she would like to go next year with me, and I would love to share the experience with her.

One very big treat was driving from Denver, Colorado to SLC - not on my way there (because I drove through lower Wyoming, which was very tan and bland), but on the way back.  On my return trip from Utah to Colorado, I drove through southeast Utah and then into Colorado on I-70, which was an absolutely beautiful drive.  Being Fall, the leaves on the trees were changing colors, and the backdrop of scenic beauty was breathtaking, particularly through the area surrounding Aspen, Colorado.  Driving along with the mountains surrounding me and the Colorado River running alongside the highway with the Fall colors splashed through the scenery was almost surreal.